The First Step
For our July blog, we are giving our space to the First Nation community by making available an interview with Rev. Dr. Ray Aldred, status Cree from Treaty 8 and a deeply committed Christian. He was interviewed by Ken Shigematsu, Senior Pastor of Tenth Church in Vancouver, B.C.
When I asked First Nation people what we should do in this current situation, they said the first step for all of us is to listen and learn. Please take the time to watch this interview online, listen to it , or to read it here.
We have been shaken by the recent discovery of over 500 indigenous bodies, including many children, in unmarked graves, near three former BC “Indian Residential Schools”. This includes 215 child graves found in May by the Tk’emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation in Kamloops, 182 unmarked graves found in June by the Lower Kootenay Band near Cranbrook, and 160 unmarked graves found in July by the Penelakut Tribe on Kuper Island. This does not count the discoveries being made across Canada, including 751 unmarked graves in Saskatchewan found by the Cowessess First Nation.
The fact that these graves were intentionally unmarked and the deaths unrecorded, which was and is illegal, indicates quite clearly that those involved knew that what was happening at these schools was an offense to even the legal and moral standards of the time. There are, without doubt, many more of these horrific discoveries coming.
150,000 children were forcibly removed from their families to attend 139 Residential schools set up by the Canadian Government throughout Canada from 1831 to 1996. Estimates of children who died currently range as high as 10,000, or almost certainly 5- 7% of the children who attended.
As followers of Christ, we not only want to know the truth, but we want to be agents in both “word and deed'' to bring repentance, reconciliation, recompense, and ongoing change socially, politically, and economically to address past and current wrongs to the Indigenous community.
Listening and learning with you,
Tom
Transcript of “A Conversation with Ray Aldred, a Local Indigenous Leader”
Ken: So, as we begin, could you give us a window into what it was like to grow up as an Indigenous person here in Canada and you're part of the Cree people. What was that like?
Ray: I think that growing up gradually developed ambivalence about your own identity as an indigenous person in Canada, at least for my generation and maybe my grandfather and my mother, because Canada didn't like its indigenous people. On one hand, as your grow up you embrace these lies that were told about you: that you were bad; you were incompetent and you believe those things about yourself. I say ambivalence because I was proud at times to be indigenous, because well, I didn’t get sunburned, which I liked. And I also felt proud when my mom taught us how to snare rabbits and clean fish and we ate lots of wild meats and stuff. I like knowing all those things, because they made me feel close to the land. But at the same time, you develop self-hatred and self-contempt about who you are, so you always didn't want to tell anybody who you were. You wanted to pretend you were something else. So, my grandfather pretended he was Chinese; my mom would tell everybody we're mostly French and Scottish. I did the same thing. But then when Dances with Wolves (1990) happened everybody wanted to be an Indian (I’m just kidding). But even then, which is kind of the sad part, it was only when white people wanted to be Indians, then it's okay to be an Indian. But growing up in Canada you were always taught that you were a problem to be solved.
“It was a strange mix I think and ambivalence is how I would describe growing up in Canada, sort of like you liked who you were but on the other hand you hated who you are”
Even when I started following hard after Jesus, my indigenous identity was seen as something that was going to trip you up. One of the reasons why you were struggling in your life was because you were indigenous and that's how it was often said. So you needed to repent of being. I think the way the language went was something like this: “If you repented of all the sins your ancestors have committed”. With this kind of language that was used, you ended up thinking “Gee... being indigenous is a real liability,” so you develop this self-hatred.
And then to know that the government was making laws to sort of outlaw you as a people, but then on the other hand hearing your grandparents and other people speaking this language and wishing you knew what they were saying. My grandparents would talk in Cree. They spoke Michif so that we didn’t know what they were saying.
It was a strange mix I think and ambivalence is how I would describe growing up in Canada, sort of like you liked who you were but on the other hand you hated who you are. That is kind of what it was like growing up as indigenous person here.
Ken: Must have been hard to see some of the beauty of your culture through your parents and grandparents, but also to feel this sense of self-hatred given the negation of your culture from other people.
Ray: yeah, yeah. Then you see a lot of your friends you know, they just didn’t make it. I went to school with a guy in the foster care system where when you turned 18 you were kicked out of a home you lived in your whole life. That's what happened to him and he died on the street because he didn’t have anywhere to go.
Ken: That must have been so isolating and difficult. May I ask you this: as an indigenous person, what was it like for you when you heard the news of the 215 bodies being discovered in Kamloops?
“I’m in a river of grief”
Ray: I think sometimes when you're so familiar with grief you don't feel anything at first but then slowly it just gets in and builds up. Right now it feels like I'm in a river of grief. I think most First Nations in Canada are. I try not to say those kinds of statements, but I just think it feels as my co-worker Hubert Barton, who is Nisga’a, said it feels like you lost a relative. That’s what it feels like. I’m sure it feels worse for those people whose relatives never came back.
Read Transcript of “A Conversation with Ray Aldred, a local Indigenous Leader”
Ken: Did you have any relatives that went to residential schools?
Ray: I did. My aunties were. Well, there are several kinds of residential schools. There were the residential schools that were on the official list and then there were the unofficial ones run by provinces. My aunties were in a convent for a couple of years. And the practice in Canada was if one of the indigenous spouses passed on and it was a single-parent home the practice was they would take those kids and put them in an orphanage. Usually a convent. It was not good.
Ken: Speaking of not good, what was it that the government and the Christian church trying to achieve through these residential schools and convents where children were held? and how did it go so wrong?
Ray: I think that in Canada the process was called resocialization. Ward Churchill, who was from the United States, coined the phrase that describes this process: “they were going to kill the Indian and save the child”. The idea was that they were going to turn them into useful citizens in Canada, and so they were trying to assimilate them. There is a memo that you can read online in the Royal Commission on Aboriginal peoples. Hayter Reed was the name of the guy who worked for Indian Affairs, and in a memo to the Catholic principles said that every effort must be made to obliterate any relationship that keeps familiar in the memories of these children their indigenous cultures. So Canada’s goal was to obliterate Indigenous culture, to destroy it and to wipe it out so that these children would be resocialized into Euro-Canadian sort of values.
“The problem for the church was not that indigenous people didn’t receive the Gospel. Many indigenous people responded to the Gospel, but these kids were not Christian enough.”
The government got the church to help because churches thought they could help. In some places, situations were bad and a lot of times churches got involved because they felt sorry for indigenous people. There was a missionary from England who said “the government would civilize and the church would Christianize.” The problem for the church was not that indigenous people didn't receive the Gospel. Many indigenous people responded to the Gospel, but these kids were not Christian enough.They were not the right kind of Christian. They didn't look like, they didn't talk like, smell like, and they didn't dress like the right kind of Christian. The church adopted that same attitude to assimilate indigenous people and children.
This happened across Canada in successive governments that instituted the same policies. They introduced the Indian Act in the late 1800 early 1900 as a way to make legal things illegal, and perpetrated against indigenous people. The newcomers sort of went along with it at times because they were getting land. They were able to take land because the government said to them this land is empty, go ahead and take it.
Ken: They didn’t regard indigenous people as human beings, so they said here's the land for the taking.
Ray: Because they didn't fit what they thought real civilized people look like, so that's what they did. They did it even more so in British Columbia. British Columbia was on one level a little worse than the rest of Canada because they continued to perpetrate these things long after Canada had tried to make some little changes. I think it was Wilfred Laurier who told British Columbia back in early 1900 that there is no way you're going to be able to get around not making a treaty because in British Columbia they didn't want to make a treaty. They said the land was empty.
Ken: I’ve heard Canadian say you know that the abuses were isolated or the schools did a lot of good. How would you respond to that?
Ray: I’d probably say they are talking out their ass. Maybe that is what I would think, but they really don’t understand that the abuse was there. The reason that they beat indigenous kids in residential schools for speaking their language is that in Canada in general indigenous kids were discouraged from speaking their language and spanked for speaking their language in any school, and not just in residential school.
Canada's goal was to assimilate and culturally destroy indigenous people, because they stood in the way of Canada becoming a nation-state. So I would say you really don't understand how bad it was. The whole thing was bad. It wasn't just that it was a good idea and just the abuse happened to be there. I would just say the whole thing right from the whole process was flawed.
Ken: And Jesus said in Matthew “you will know them by their fruits”and when we look at the fruits of these schools, such as alcoholism, sexually transmitted diseases, drug addiction, and suicide rate. It was just a wrong and sinful project.
Ray: Well, I think lots of church people knew that it was wrong. I think lots of church officials knew that it was wrong, but they justified it by saying this is going to lead to something better. And as the church does or people often do when problems develop they always blame them for being that way and not taking responsibility. Europeans look down on indigenous people. That is well documented and that's why they did these things because they thought indigenous people were a problem to be solved and they justified their actions by saying all this is going to lead to something good. Lesslie Newbigin says “any government or nation that says we are the kingdom of God come to Earth, ends up bringing hell up instead.” I think there was a historian who said Canada and the United States interpreted their own actions as the advancement of the kingdom of God, so the church just got caught up.
Ken: Thanks for naming that Ray. I think as you say those words - the church trying to bring heaven, brought hell. I am part of the church. I'm a minister and I'm so sorry Ray for the pain and the destruction that the church perpetrated against your beautiful people. And I'm really grateful that you are in conversation right now with me, with our community and really thank you. There are many people from different parts of the world watching this online or on television. If you could sit down one on one with each person, what would you want to say to them? What message would you want to say to them?
“At the heart, we need to develop a treaty spirituality that says that all peoples, because of who the Creator is and that it’s a good world, should have a peaceful existence.”
Ray: I think that at the heart of indigenous spirituality is the idea of being thankful for the place that the creator has placed us upon the Earth. And that it cares for us, the land. And when the newcomers came, I think indigenous people believed that the Creator had brought these new people here, so they tried to teach them and help them develop a kind of indigenous identity through a relationship with the people who were here before them. I think at the heart, we need to develop a treaty of spirituality that says that all peoples, because of who the Creator is and that it's a good world, should have a peaceful existence.
People should have the privilege of having a peaceful existence. People should also have access to the land - to live in relationship in a good way with Creation, with the Earth and with all the creatures including human beings who live in this shared space. And it's also our privilege in Canada to live off the bounty of Mother Earth and all people should enjoy that. That is why homelessness and hunger are such a big problem. These are all aspects of the treaty that I heard from one of the grand chiefs out in Ontario. Stan Beardy told me those things and I think that the other aspect is that all peoples have the privilege to be who the Creator made them to be. The space between us we call honour and respect. I heard Patricia Vickers say that the space between us we call honour and respect and protocol is the way that we maintain the space and this space between us is the place for collaboration.
I heard on CBC radio today, I think Ron Ignace who was the [first] Indigenous Language Commissioner. He was in the Kamloops school. In 1910 he said it's not your average Canadian that the indigenous people are fighting with, it's the Canadian government. They deny the sovereignty of the First Nations, the Métis, and the Inuit. They should respect those peoples and work towards a harmonious relationship. When they made treaties where I'm from, we became like relatives. We promise that we live like relatives, and that the Creator would hold us to that. In all my speaking, I'm calling all people who call this place home that we would live like relatives and that we would rely on the strength of the Creator to live like we are relatives.
Ken: That is a great word. The Scripture tells us in the book of Acts 17:26 that based on the creation poem that we have emerged as one human being as members of the same race. We are all made in God's image. Ray in closing, what does it look like to foster peace in that spacing in between us - honour and respect - for each other as relatives and the Earth?
Ray: I think that there are three movements we are on in Canada. Sometimes we do better and sometimes, not so good. And they are all parts of the movements of restorative justice, which is an attempt at reconciliation. You gotta tell the truth at different times. And this is an example, indigenous people told the truth. And others have started to tell the truth through the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Tell the truth. You got to listen so that you can feel the pain and then you need to use the energy you gain from listening. The emotional strength to come up with a shared plan. I think that's the stage we are at in Canada, but it has to be at a micro-level and a macro level at the same time. That is where TenthChurch could play a part, raising awareness but also trying to provide a space where we could think about what a shared plan looks like?
There are smarter people than me who have all these great practical ideas. I always think that's the part we are on right now in Canada. We shouldn't grow weary of well-doing, I think that's how it goes in Scripture. And again, it all comes back to Jesus. In 1 John it says we love because he first loved us. Paul Martin asked us once one time there were a bunch of us in Ottawa - Chyrel Bear, Dean Shingoose and Terry LeBlanc. The former prime minister, Paul Martin, a devout Catholic asked us “how can you still believe after all the things that have happened?” and I think it's because we've experienced the love of Christ, and I think life is kind of simple that way. You receive the love of Christ and then you love other people. No one could stop you from doing that.
Ray Aldred is status Cree from Treaty 8. Ray Aldred is ordained with the Christian and Missionary Alliance in Canada. And has a ThD in Theology. Born in Northern Alberta, he now resides with his wife in Richmond, BC, Canada. Ray is the Director of the Indigenous Studies Program at Vancouver School of Theology. He is former Director for the First Nations Alliance Churches of Canada, now committee member, where he worked to encourage pastors ministering to aboriginal people. He is the chairperson of Indigenous Pathways and the North American Institute of Indigenous Theological Studies. Back to top
Ken Shigematsu is the senior pastor since 1996 of TenthChurch. Ken studied business economics and philosophy, a Master of Divinity and a D. Min Author , Speaker and. Ken is the author of the award-winning, international bestseller, God in My Everything, and his most recent book Survival Guide for the Soul was named by the Word Guild as the 2019 Christian living book of the year. Back to top
This interview was first published at TentChurch on June 29th, 2021.
